TAG/SG Coyote

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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by dinglem »

Trung Au to thank for the paintwork :wink:
CAT SWB&XL, Meteor (x3), RC10 custom, RC10 Graphite, Goldpan, 870c (x2), Works 91, Samurai, Pro Radiant (x2), Mini Mustang&Maxima, Mid Turbo, TOP Hybrid , Coyote, Hot Trick Optima, Supercharge, Brimod, 'Rory Cull' Hotshot, SRB.

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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by dinglem »

So next up was tidying up the suspension geometry as well as to upgrade the pish original shocks for some Scorpion items. We made some brackets to take some of the flex out of the wishbones, which had been an issue, which also served as multi-point lower shocker mounts. We now have a super smooth suspension movement and the throw is much improved also.
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CAT SWB&XL, Meteor (x3), RC10 custom, RC10 Graphite, Goldpan, 870c (x2), Works 91, Samurai, Pro Radiant (x2), Mini Mustang&Maxima, Mid Turbo, TOP Hybrid , Coyote, Hot Trick Optima, Supercharge, Brimod, 'Rory Cull' Hotshot, SRB.

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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by dinglem »

Also picked up a spare parts haul recently which included some of the later stronger upper wishbones, the lesser-spotted front gearbox casing, and a set of factory wheel adapters which luckily include the rare one-ways for the front.
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CAT SWB&XL, Meteor (x3), RC10 custom, RC10 Graphite, Goldpan, 870c (x2), Works 91, Samurai, Pro Radiant (x2), Mini Mustang&Maxima, Mid Turbo, TOP Hybrid , Coyote, Hot Trick Optima, Supercharge, Brimod, 'Rory Cull' Hotshot, SRB.

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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by dinglem »

Whilst on the subject of spares, any Coyote owner will know that spares availability is pretty sparse (understatement) which is why I have picked up a couple of additional cars recently. However, the guy who sent me the bits and bobs i pictured in my earlier post seems to have quite a stash. He owns an old model shop which supported SG/TAG bitd.

He sent me these pics recently....
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Amazingly, he also has the ACTUAL CAR owned and raced by team driver Umberto Pernice - the one he used to qualify second behind Phil Davies and ahead of Jamie Booth during the '87 European Championships. I confirmed this with Umberto himself, who told me he did indeed sell him his old race car. Kinda cool... he won't sell it.... i did ask!!
pernice coyote.jpg
CAT SWB&XL, Meteor (x3), RC10 custom, RC10 Graphite, Goldpan, 870c (x2), Works 91, Samurai, Pro Radiant (x2), Mini Mustang&Maxima, Mid Turbo, TOP Hybrid , Coyote, Hot Trick Optima, Supercharge, Brimod, 'Rory Cull' Hotshot, SRB.

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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by GoMachV »

Nice! Lots of Tag Pro10 stuff there!
It's time to stand up to the bully. Support the companies that support the industry, not the ones that tear it down. Say no to Traxxas
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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by 1300GT »

Your Coyote's looking great.

You need to get your hands on all that SG/TAG goodness. :lol:
Chris.

Toys.............they are!

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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by dinglem »

Latest bits and bobs. Thicker, stronger wishbones for the rear and larger diameter balls for the suspension pivot points, and the anti-roll bar fittings.
coyote upgrades.jpg
CAT SWB&XL, Meteor (x3), RC10 custom, RC10 Graphite, Goldpan, 870c (x2), Works 91, Samurai, Pro Radiant (x2), Mini Mustang&Maxima, Mid Turbo, TOP Hybrid , Coyote, Hot Trick Optima, Supercharge, Brimod, 'Rory Cull' Hotshot, SRB.

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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by Dadio »

Enough spares to start to build another car :wink:
If a jobs not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well.
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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by dinglem »

Dadio wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 5:59 pm Enough spares to start to build another car :wink:
Already got that covered..... got a deal on this pair not too long ago with an eye towards building a spares stash. One looks like it has never even bee run it is so clean!
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CAT SWB&XL, Meteor (x3), RC10 custom, RC10 Graphite, Goldpan, 870c (x2), Works 91, Samurai, Pro Radiant (x2), Mini Mustang&Maxima, Mid Turbo, TOP Hybrid , Coyote, Hot Trick Optima, Supercharge, Brimod, 'Rory Cull' Hotshot, SRB.

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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by dinglem »

Been a while since anything happened with this build, as we have been focusing on other cars, but the rear wing has gone on now and we are now looking at lowering the bodyshell down a little as it is really only the body mount posts themselves which are raising the shell up a little higher than it needs to be.

Quick mock-up looks fab though 8)

Once the shell position has been addressed the electrics are going in next. I need some sort of Lipo securing system so that requires a little thought also. This thing is so damn light it is ridiculous.

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One thing I am on the look out for is an additional pair of these IMEX wheels.... they are a pin/slot fitment. Can anybody help? I want to cut a pair down to make some narrow fronts, but am reluctant to cut my only set in case i fudge it.
CAT SWB&XL, Meteor (x3), RC10 custom, RC10 Graphite, Goldpan, 870c (x2), Works 91, Samurai, Pro Radiant (x2), Mini Mustang&Maxima, Mid Turbo, TOP Hybrid , Coyote, Hot Trick Optima, Supercharge, Brimod, 'Rory Cull' Hotshot, SRB.

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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by dinglem »

Starting to look the part now. I have added a few more stickers, ordered some Lipo trays (which I am hoping will fit) and started gathering the electrics. The car is entered in a vintage race meeting in the UK towards the end of July so I still have a bit of shake-down time. I am really excited about getting it up and running and seeing how it actually performs/handles.
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CAT SWB&XL, Meteor (x3), RC10 custom, RC10 Graphite, Goldpan, 870c (x2), Works 91, Samurai, Pro Radiant (x2), Mini Mustang&Maxima, Mid Turbo, TOP Hybrid , Coyote, Hot Trick Optima, Supercharge, Brimod, 'Rory Cull' Hotshot, SRB.

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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by dinglem »

Well, looking at the electrics I have available I think I have pretty much decided which way I am going. I am keen to stick with brushed motor power, and so it seems only right to go with the motors that the Italian TAG team drivers used back in the '86 - '87 seasons when racing in the European Championships. At that time the motors to have were built by a guy called Umberto Milanesi, and were called Mustang Motors. I am fortunate enough to have a Triple 16 Mustang which was sourced from the '87 Euro's. I have had this rebuilt recently and it is putting out some impressive figures, so that is what I am going to go with. I also have a motor heatsink with built in fan, so I am going to try that out initially to see what the motor temps end up like. Not sure how reliable that will be as it only cost a fiver, but worth a go I thought.
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I ordered some 3D printed Lipo holders in red from Shapeways a week or so ago and they have now landed - i went for a pair with an offset battery strap to allow for the Lipo position we have gone for which slots into the vertical chassis plates and they seem to fit well with a quick mock-up. The chassis cut-outs need to be extended a little to accommodate them, but that isn't really an issue.
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I have an LRP Sphere ESC which i am going to use - very neat and compact unit it is too.
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Servo-wise, well i have a few older units available, but for reliability and cost-effectiveness i am thinking about going for a modern Trackstar Evo T1. Very small and compact, quick and comes in a nice red anno alloy case.

I will add some more pictures as it all starts to go in.

The last thing I am attempting to do is add some one-ways at the front, which is a mod the TAG Team drivers also applied to their cars bitd. I am also hoping to stick with vintage tyres even though we will be running on Astro, so I am hoping the old school super low-profile Schumacher Minispikes will work ok (plus they look epic!) I have sourced a set... just waiting for them to arrive.
CAT SWB&XL, Meteor (x3), RC10 custom, RC10 Graphite, Goldpan, 870c (x2), Works 91, Samurai, Pro Radiant (x2), Mini Mustang&Maxima, Mid Turbo, TOP Hybrid , Coyote, Hot Trick Optima, Supercharge, Brimod, 'Rory Cull' Hotshot, SRB.

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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by V12 »

Interesting fact on the Mustang motor. These were available to the Italian TAG team drivers only back in the days, so you got a very rare motor.
Triple 16T was a hot wind that time and the prototype Team Losi Revolution motor I received that year was the same wind. Was released as Revolution Brutus later. Losi Triple 17T motors were really fast and not too bad on batteries but the 16T (especially the prototype) was a rocket.

We didn´t use heatsink or fan that timeframe but if you plan to use Lipo batteries I think such motor could be burnt, voltage is way higher and internal resistance way lower. Maybe going with LiFe would be more safe.

Regarding tires the TAG team used the same as CAT drivers but we were racing on gras. This was the typical tires usually which came with the CAT kit, for the rear it could depend on track but most drivers switched to the TAG rear tires at some point. These look similar to the CAT tires but had an additional row of spikes right at the middle and were a bit softer.

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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by V12 »

Oneway was used for the newer TAG Pro10, not sure for the Coyote but think maybe not.

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Re: TAG/SG Coyote

Post by dinglem »

Great info V12 - thanks very much for taking the time to add to my post with your experience.

I am aware of how rare the Mustang motor is. They earned a fearsome pedigree on the European circuit in the mid to late 80's, having put 3 members of the Italian team into the A Final at the '86 Euro's (before they started using Coyote's), and then qualifying second the following year with Umberto Pernice using his Coyote, ahead of Jamie Booth in 3rd with his CAT. Beating Jamie says a lot, but they actually got FTD, 2nd and 3rd qualifying positions in the 86 A Final.
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I sent mine off to Glyn Ward for a rebuild - Glyn used to make BRM motors back in the day and was on close terms with Mike Reedy. He has fully overhauled the motor. The magnets were way off when he first opened it up, so he has re-aligned them for starters before zapping the can.
mustang magnets.jpg
Flag should be pointing to the notch on the can.

He also skimmed and checked the armature. He reported that the inductance was the lowest he has ever tested for a 16Triple, with the stack length being right at the very minimum, although no laminate had been removed. It certainly seems to be the real deal. I have managed to gain some contact details for Umberto Milanesi, the infamous Italian motor builder, so I really need to bite the bullet and try conversing with him about these motors, although it will all have to be in Italian :?

I have also been in discussions with the TAG team driver Umberto Pernice, who told me the Coyote morphed into what became known as the Pro10 production kit over a period of time, with most developments ongoing on track through the 87 season. They didn't really start using the Coyote themselves in competition until late '86, and by the 87 Euro's they had more upright suspension as per the Pro10 and had developed the front one-ways, but there were also cars there with the lay-down front suspension set up still, and all cars were still called 'Coyote'. Umberto was the one who sent me his set of front one-way adapters in fact. He was running a special carbon fibre tub chassis made for him by Ferrari(!) at that time.

The car below from the '87 Euro's has more conventional upright rear suspension with long shocks, but still retains the lower front set up and the Coyote shell and bumper. The front one-ways meant they could use 'Tamiya'-esq three point wheel adapters, which is why many of the drivers then started using Polaris alloy wheels.
87 Coyote.jpg
The one-ways are also mentioned on the tech sheet for the 87 Euro's A Final.
87 euro.jpg
By this time they were also testing out prototype thicker, stronger wishbones (white on the team cars) again which eventually found their way on to the Pro10 when it was released. They also added the rear toe-in mod and anti roll bars which the team drivers had been running on their Coyote's for some time. I am now adding a few of these mods to my Coyote and Umberto has really helped me out with that. He helped me source some of the thicker upper wishbones and has also sent me one of their anti roll bar set-ups, but I haven't thought about fitting that yet (front or rear??) Still researching as we go, but getting there. Your info on the subject is therefore very much appreciated!
CAT SWB&XL, Meteor (x3), RC10 custom, RC10 Graphite, Goldpan, 870c (x2), Works 91, Samurai, Pro Radiant (x2), Mini Mustang&Maxima, Mid Turbo, TOP Hybrid , Coyote, Hot Trick Optima, Supercharge, Brimod, 'Rory Cull' Hotshot, SRB.

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